Post Punk Kitchen Forum

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/23 ... n-20110623

word.

there is no such thing as a cruelty free lunch.

I'd say the same, except people just say "I'd be a vegan except..." as an excuse all. the. time. Take the bacon out of the deal and they'll say cheese next.

I mean, just say you don't want to/care to be vegan. Don't lie about it for my sake. I'm not vegan for my own sake, and I'm not asking anybody else to be either.

Agreed.

Also, what the hell is everyones obsession with bacon? Before I was vegan, I hated bacon.

i'm not sure if I like or hate the fact that new famous vegans have to come along to make other people realize that vegans aren't crassholes. It's like the media had this perception of militant vegan crassholes and assumed everyone was like that and now Oprah's favorite vegan chef comes along and everyone thinks he's the first one to have these revolutionary ideas when really, all along, many people have thought this way.

edited to add: realized it sounds like I was saying that I think it's ok for people who eat bacon to call themselves vegan. i don't. I don't really know a good solution to the issue of what to call people who are vegan except for bacon, but I've also never heard of anyone who was vegan except for one specific food before.

Oh, I don't know, ijdi, he talks about inventing a cream substitute from soaked and blended raw cashews. I mean, who else has ever used that before?

Oh.

Oh yeah, I should have stated before that I don't believe that you can eat bacon and call yourself a vegan. That works against what veganism is.

What a strange article. Does Ronnen have poor verbal grammar? The writing just seems 'off' somehow. Shallow? Or like it was cut-and-pasted sections just slapped together. I don't know, news articles usually have just a little bit more 'flow' to them.

Anywho, I think that he should just call himself a flexitarian, somewhat strict vegetarian, or something, since "I am vegan" + "animal product addendum" just seems to debase the definition. It'd be like saying "I am an atheist" + "Oh yeah, but I do believe in x spiritual being." After all, it is key to a definition to say that an entity possesses these qualities, but then exclude other qualities. C'mon, that's what makes it distinct!

I would say it is the journalist's responsibility to not make Ronnen sound grammatically erratic.

It must be nice to muse about veganism in a sun-dappled dining room of a loft in downtown Los Angeles.

Facetiousness aside, I don't think there is anything wrong with the article or his thoughts, but as IJDI suggested, that the whole celebrity vegan painting a non-threatening view of all vegans doesn't sit too well with me. I don't have anything against Ronnen--and I think he has come up with some great recipes/the vegan exposure is great--but celeb vegans are just kind of annoying.

I don't think he's saying, "You can call yourself a vegan and still eat bacon," but "You say you can't give up bacon? Fine. Don't give up bacon, but make sure everything else you eat comes from a plant."

It's a way of defusing the "I can't give up x, so I'm just going to keep on eating all these animals and animal products that aren't x" excuse, while encouraging people toward a healthier way of eating that will, incidentally, result in fewer animals being killed.

I think he sounds pragmatic and reasonable.

Exactly.

I agree. He's saying a foodie variation of "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

Except for the oystrovegan!

This fictional person could be porcinegan maybe. Bacontarian?

*Chortle*

As someone who is struggling to give up certain foods, I understand where Ronnen is coming from.
As for bacon-I've discovered bacon salt. That made it easy to give up.
Since I've seen Isa's recipes for sausage that use fennel, I want to try that.
Now, I am working on eliminating dairy. It's hard-local supermarket has limited options, Whole Foods is expensive, Wegmans in about 25 miles away.
And as I working mom, time is limited. I've found in my experience that a few months after I give up one thing, my attraction to something else starts to slide. I just bought a good pan that will make it easier to do tofu scrambles-Im loosing the taste for eggs, I think. I just ordered my nutritional yeast to try Robin Robertson's Cheezee sauce.
Plus, I am working on getting my husband to get on board with the plan.

Point being-life being what it is, alot of us cant just flip the switch and be vegan. Its a process. Don't nock us for not being all the way there yet. Encourage us and help us move in the right direction.

No one is mocking anyone at all. I think pretty much everyone is saying that yeah, we agree that any amount of meat or animal products someone gives up is great.

Whenever I'm leafleting or doing pay-per-view when someone tells me that they would be vegan except but they just can't give up X (usually cheese) I'll tell them to give up everything except cheese and that later they'll probably eventually find it easy to give up cheese as well.

The first year I was vegan, I didn't call myself vegan because it felt kind of odd to go from eating steak to vegan the next day and telling people I was vegan. So I said I was vegetarian. I had a trip to a remote part of the world 2 months after 'going vegan' but I really didnt have the skills to be vegan in such a situation but I was able to not eat meat so I did that. After that, every few months I would eat non-vegan things out of convenience on trips. I guess my point is that I probably ate vegan 98% of the time the first year but by not telling everyone I was vegan, it took a little pressure off of me when I was still figuring how to navigate certain situations.

We've discussed it here before but what can be troubling is someone announcing it to the world that they are vegan and then also saying they still eat bacon. It ends up confusing people who don't know about veganism and thinking it is something it is not.

The first few months after I changed my diet, I was "eating more vegetables" for the same reason. It gave me time to figure out how to do things.

I don't really mind the thought behind reminding someone that if it's just one food they are worried about, to start with everything else... but I don't like the implication that thinking a vegan can't eat bacon is militant.

Yeah, it's a bit arsey isn't it.

*dumb room-mate post removed*

*response to dumb room-mate post*

*another response to dumb room-mate post*

+ filter love <3

*yet another response to dumb room-mate post*

Sorry. My roommate is an idiot. Need to learn how to lock my mac. Can I delete the whole post?

[yes you can! -jordanpattern]